Venting Re: Elections

destiny · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 213

I hope an election thread is the right place to do this, but I REALLY want to get this said somewhere. A few days ago I almost did it at a place that would have caused me some heartache Smile

so I stopped myself. But this seems a good venue.

Something that truly bugs me is reading articles, forum posts, etc. that bash an American politician (either party, but the President seems to be the most chosen)... of course this is fine and healthy, freedom of speech and all our other awesome freedoms, but THEN I read or find out that people saying they can't stand the thought of a certain politician becoming president, or whatever they're rambling about do NOT live in America at all. It's almost like they want to "bash" our politicians because it's become all the rage and they want to fit in or something.

That's all.... but I'd like to sound a huge GRRRRRRRRRRRRR Evil or Very Mad

and if no one wants to listen, that's fine, but it drives me up a proverbial WALL!

rattitude · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 101

Let me first say that I live in America in the hope you will listen to me.

People outside of America care who rules this place because it affects them.

When Reagan sent secret agents to influence the NZ election and fund a right wing candidate for Prime Minister I sure as hell had an opinion about that.

When Clinton went on about free trade and put a 20% tariff on NZ beef in the same week he drove some farmers below the poverty line and demonstrated himself to be an utter hypocrite. Of course I had an opinion about him.

When Bush said he would put tariffs on NZ trade because our government did not support the Gulf war I also had an opinion about that. Using the American economy as a weapon to influence our politicians whilst continuing to go on about the sanctity of free trade in making a free world.

Americans don't care who runs NZ because it doesn't AFFECT them. The reverse is very much not true--for almost every country in the world America has both direct/deliberate and indirect impacts that are massive in scale. We don't get to elect these guy but we still get them messing in our business and so we sure are going to talk about them.

kdarrell · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 60 Location: Canada

I think rattitude does make a good point. Even though some of us don't live in the States, the president and the presidental party do most certainly affect our country. If my prime minister was doing something I didn't agree with, I would have a comment about it as it affects me. Same thing as the Americian president. Just my two cents Very Happy

destiny · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 213

rattitude · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 101

I think you will find non-Americans would not even phrase the debate in thos eterms at all. For a start, terrorims rick in NZ=0. One false anthrax scare perpetrated by a nutter and that is it. Terrorism is a non-issue domestically and a very very low issue in general. Abstract. (Outside of the ex-patriots who were involved).

When foreign leaders are relevant to Americans they do in general get commented on to a similar extent. I don't see why not. Is it somehow rude to acknowledge politicians in foreign countries have different policies, some of which I like better than others--that I support some and not others just as with domestic officials?

The french government sent scuba divers into NZ, bombed a ship and killed a man. But saying that the prime minister was a person of poor ethics and judgement for doing that would be somehow... inappropriate? Just because I'm not French?

It's politics not prejudice. It isn't something foreigners do and American's don't. I haven't seen people refusing to criticise the leader of North Korea on this basis.

destiny · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 213

rattitude · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 101

You posted your personal opinion that foreigners "bash" your leader (GRRRR) and should essentially shut up, on a public forum in the sincere anticipation of a lack of debate? The foreigners who got in one way or another "bashed" by your leader are unreasonable to even provide the other perspective? How strange. In public forums pretty much anything is implicity "up for debate" unless the moderator says otherwise. Each person, as you point out, controls only whether they participate.

I could start a thread in the environmental forum saying I very privately and personally think we show invade Alaska and take all it's oil, then build nuclear reactors on what is left. But I would expect to get some replies. The hippy culture is one of open debate and no great or intrinsic respect for authority figures of any nationality.

julian4239 · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 17

I agree with destiny.

If a non US person knows at least something about US politics, then that's fine; they can bash away. But what irks me is when someone from another country only takes ques from stooges like Michael Moore and think America is some place where the 'devil' lives, then they should keep their yaps trapped.